Sleeping, Part 13: Napping At The Bangkok Demonstrations, 2014

A minor encampment in front of the Sport Science Bureau, next to MBK

The ongoing demonstrations in Thailand, while occurring in different parts of the country at different times, are primarily based in the Big Mango - Bangkok. Now the hub of note is Lumpini Park - or at least a portion of it, with traffic still brought to a standstill when the group moves out to march one place or another.

On the sidewalk in front of the MBK McDonalds

Meanwhile, people still need a place to sleep. That, and, as George Carlin used to do a routine about, "keep a smaller version of 'their stuff'". In January that included camping tents. Thousands of them, spread around at the protest sites. The small number of them above were next to, and below, the National Stadium BTS station, adjacent to the enormous Mah Boon Krong [MBK] Shopping Mall. The area where the B-Boys (breakdancers) used to hold court by that station is now cordoned off, so the free shows are on hiatus. 

When I was there most of the speeches and rallying took place in the evenings, and when the "Nine to Five" folks got off work many of them would make their way to the stage sites to hear the speakers, clack their plastic hand noisemakers and raise a combined shriek with thousands of whistles when they heard something they liked coming from the concert-sized banks of amplifiers.

Napping at noontime next to the National Stadium BTS station

During the daytime, much of the area was quiet; cart vendors ruling the scene, and many of the others just in town for the protests (so to speak) were snoozing wherever they could. Come to think of it, it was much the same at nighttime for random napping, but I honestly don't understand how very many could sleep through the 100 decibel racket.  I'd say "sleep of the innocent", but from distant past experience I tend to doubt that was the case!

Evidently he wasn't as taken by the speech going on as some were...

Through My Viewfinder, Pt. 1: Miscellaneous Bangkok

Call it what you will... I can't see the "fun" in this place

I freely admit I overuse the word "wander", but it best describes how I choose to spend a lot of time while on holiday, wherever that may be, and the implication that it's an unhurried walk around looking at people, places and things is often an apt description.

What remains of the canal below the Chong Nonsi BTS station

It probably goes without saying that I take a lot of pictures while on these casual excursions. I tend to group them for posts here by category, and that often leaves some of them in a batch that don't quite fit into any specific niche.  This series is an attempt to gather some of these digital "orphans" together and share them, if for no other reason than they pleased my eye at the time and I'd like to pass them along.

A Mexican restaurant near Silom Soi 4, if not on it... I'm not sure

A good friend and fellow blogger recently added his vote while we were on the phone that my composition skills leave a bit (OK, more than a bit) to be desired, but hey - everyone's a critic! Some people make baseless criticism their life's work. I don't understand the satisfaction in that, so I'll leave it to them and wish them well with it. I myself already know several reasonably well-known painters and photographers who support themselves quite well with their work, and if they say my composition skills suck, they probably do, wo who am I to argue?  Leaves me room for improvement, I suppose - and isn't that what the journey's mainly about, anyway?

The early morning sky, reflected in the wavy glass of an office building in the Sathorn area

So, here's Part One. As I now have well over 50,000 images from Thailand it could go on a while. Don't tempt me.

By the way... to address a recent message (and for those who don't read the introductory flotsam and jetsam on sites they visit) yes, unless I note otherwise I do take all of the images I post here myself. Wouldn't be honest if I didn't. Hopefully this puts the subject to rest again for a while.

An oddly-angled intersection near Siam Discovery

As always, comments are always welcome. Hope you enjoy the pictures.

Same Same, But Different! Pt. 15: Civil Disobedience Here (And There)

The "I have a dream" speech crowd near the Washington Monument 50+ years ago

During the decade of the 1960s - a bit over 50 years ago - the United States had its share of unrest. Not only then, mind you, but it's been the most influential and progressive time during my life, even if I was a bit young to fully grasp what was going on at the beginning of it. Some of it was difficult to watch, but there it was, anyway: beamed into our homes daily by an industry just getting the hang of the immediate impact of televised news.

An image of Victory Monument, taken a few mornings ago by a friend on his way into work

There is similar civil disobedience happening (again) in Thailand; this time perhaps more organized, and certainly more visible. As you saw on the map from last Sunday there are seven key areas that have hosted the largest "camp-ins" in the city's history, and, as human nature has shown us over time, not everyone is content to wait things out. That's when the trouble starts. Acting alone or (more than likely) at the behest of someone or some group, violence erupts. Just as it did in 1963 in Birmingham, Alabama.

The famous Charles Moore photo of high school students being hit with high-pressure hoses in Birmingham in 1963

It depended on personal, regional and cultural differences how one felt about what was happening in the news - as it often does - but enough people were outraged by the 1960s images here today that changes were made. Not all of said changes were taken to heart by everyone, but things have made progress over the last half-century, I suppose.

In keeping with the "same-same, but different" thought today, over the past couple of days there has been similar uncivil disobedience in Bangkok. On the 18th it was reported that a grenade was tossed down from a building in an attempt to take out Suthep Thaugsuban one of the organizers.

A similar view of Victory Monument in Bangkok, taken by the same friend. This time he was on his way home.

Within 24 hours another grenade was tossed by the man below, said to have been caught on closed circuit TV. Aiming for a tent, he missed... and it landed on top of a coffee shop, injuring many folks nearby.

Adjusted photo from the Crime Reporter and Photographer Association of Thailand, published in the Bangkok Post 

Many embassies are advising visitors to reconsider going to Thailand at this time, especially Bangkok, but most people's vacation plans don't include wading into dangerous situations to begin with, so while some would disagree I'd suggest that with some advance planning (and some common sense while there) I personally don't see why a person couldn't have a good trip to Thailand... as things stand today. Situations can change in a heartbeat.

If you are thinking of visiting Thailand (I tend to think about it often), I'd suggest a few things: do your homework, consider steering clear of Bangkok or, if you do spend time there, use common sense and stay away from the demonstrations.  

Now It Begins...Or DOES It?

Graphic from the Bangkok Post

It's nearing dawn in Bangkok on Monday the 13th of January. Without getting into a re-hash of posted news and without joining in to spew my own opinion on what may or may not happen I offer this graphic from the Bangkok Post as reference for you folks around the globe. It shows where street closures have been scheduled; many of you will recognize familiar spots on the map. 

I'll be anxiously watching the news feeds myself over the next 24 hours - at least. I suspect a while longer than that, actually. 

To my friends there: steer clear of the protest sites, if possible. There will be enough daredevils out gathering stories and photographs.

Bangkok Balcony Boy

Sunrise colors the sky over the Siam Discovery area, awash itself in an LED glare

While I'm a few decades past being what most anyone would consider a boy (even by gay tourist vernacular, which usually means someone between the ages of, say, 18 to 25 or so there; more what would qualify as a "twink" here at home) I still get a chance to feel a spark of youthful rejuvenation with each dawn I'm awake to appreciate. I can't speak for you, but that alone makes me feel good.

Dawn and dusk are my two favorite times of day. Many around the world appreciate nap time in the middle of the day, but a nap has become a rare guilty pleasure for me, so any daylight sleeping hours would become the third favorite, I suppose.

Part of the beauty of dawn and dusk is the light. The light and colors of the morning and evening sky and the way they tint everything they touch make for not only sometimes breath-taking scenes, but also often gorgeous light for photography. Sometimes the combination of that light and the dark shadows often cast by them are absolutely magnificent, I think.

Looking towards the Siam Discovery Center, Mah Boon Krong (MBK) mall and the National and Siam BTS stations.

Regulars have seen other posts about early morning hours - such as this one from six months ago - or any of a number of others that fit (one way or another) under the sunrise/sunset label.

These golden morning and evening hours are same same, but different in the city, the suburbs, the coast and the countryside; each having their own charm. On my last trip I was able to enjoy them in quite a variety of settings, but the pictures today were taken from my perch on the balcony of my rooms in Bangkok - a spot I tend to choose as my roost of choice most any time it's not too hot and I have the luxury of some unscheduled time - hence the title today.

An arm reached for the items near the center of this image after I'd taken this one morning. Probably went out of the room on the owner that very day.

I've found it's not only a fine spot to collect my thoughts for the day after some meditation time, it's a calming and centering experience. Sitting and sipping down a cup or two of Peets Major Dickason blend coffee I've brought from home (and just freshly brewed) I've found it easy enough to lose myself and suddenly realize I've been out on my balcony for an hour and a half, just watching the sky and city below me changing.

[I don't care for the small tubes of granulated Nescafe and Coffeemate that seem to be the standard in rooms throughout the kingdom, so I bring my own coffee. With a bit of luggage space you can, too: the link to that post is here.]

The large LED billboard that faces the courtyard between Siam Discovery and Siam Center is shut off during the wee small hours, but it flares to life again at dawn, as if it's trying to out-do the sun.  As you can see to the far right in the top image today, it is bright.

The BTS elevated travel train lines open at 06:00, and it's shortly thereafter that you see them snaking along their set paths. The one below was on it's way to the Ratchathewi station from Siam, headed toward the (current) end of the Sukhumvit line at the Mo Chit station. Work is underway to take it out well North into the Nonthaburi area, but who knows when that will be completed.

A Sukhumvit line train heads North as the sky brightens: the morning commute has already begun.

Many of you have already seen the posts here about the BTS lines, but for any new arrivals there are "Newbie's Guides" sprinkled through the blog here, including an introduction,  one on statistics, another on buying tickets, others showing route maps, shops and - yes - even a post about young lovers and PDAs - Public Displays of Affection. You can find all of those by clicking here.

Well before I've finished my coffee and caught up with the previous days' paper (the one that's usually sat neatly folded on my coffee table since the previous afternoon) the commute has begun down below.

Tuk-tuks, taxis, bicycles, a sprinkling of other vehicles and a stream of pedestrians make their way in both directions over the Hua Chang bridge, which stretches over the Khlong Saen Saep longboat water taxi stop.

The "show" varies a bit from day to day; a downpour of rain or a minor traffic accident on the bridge can add their own color, but I never seem to tire of it.  Easily amused?  Perhaps, but as I say to many people I see rushing around while on holiday: it's usually too nice a day to hurry. Take a look yourself the next time you're traveling... and up that early.

Hot And Wet - OK, Make That Hot And Sweaty

I should have realized this little girl at Pantip Plaza wasn't sleepy - she was just too darned hot to squirm around.

On my first trip to Thailand my travel companion and I arrived near midnight in August at Don Muang International. The cabin crew made the announcement that the outside temperature was 29C (85F), and that the humidity was 90%. "Swell," said my friend, a native of Massachusetts "just like back home".

As we stepped through the exit door of the plane it was almost as if we were being pushed back by a wall of thick, damp air; the smell of exhaust fumes added to the scent of the moist, tropical breath being exhaled by the Big Mango itself. Clambering down the portable stairway to the tarmac we made our way to the shuttle bus that would deliver us to the terminal proper, but the aircon wasn't working in the bus, so we were even happier to get inside to claim our baggage and be on our way to the hotel.

Upon arrival to my room the bellboy (by default, I'm sure) flicked on the air conditioner and cranked it way "down", even before dropping my bags, accepting his tip and making his exit. Being from a relatively temperate climate I hadn't been as happy to hear air conditioning beginning to blast in long time, even though I did have to make an adjustment soon to keep from freezing the fruit on the welcome plate. Since that first visit I've learned I'm most comfortable overall keeping the room in the middle 70s, even when I sleep. Usually I don't use a blanket, so I'm fine with that even at night.

The entrance steps to Pantip Plaza near noon

A year or so ago I was there during a stretch of similar weather. I'd woken up later than usual (unexpected stomach problem in the wee small hours) and missed that golden window of time for an early morning walk; the temperature was already unpleasantly warm, and I knew it'd be a fool's errand to go out on foot for any extended period of time. In addition to that I had a guest arriving closer to dinnertime: a regular reader of the blog, making his first visit to Thailand. I figured I ought to save some steam for a potentially late evening out, so I tried to think of someplace to go for a few hours before coming back for some reading and a bit of a nap.

Some time back I'd already posted about the Bangkok Art and Culture Centre, a lovely spot to people watch, look about and see the ever-changing exhibits (their link is here), but since it was also a place I thought my soon-to-arrive "guest" would appreciate I set that idea aside and figured I'd just take the easy stroll from the Ratchathewi BTS station to Pantip Plaza. I needed a cable I'd somehow left behind and knew I could find a replacement there. Besides, it wasn't all that far, and I figured I'd do just fine. I was mistaken.  I was low on water in my system - but it really wasn't all that bad. I grabbed a bottle of water out of the refrigerator, downed half of it, and headed out.

Resting on the Pantip Plaza steps

Stepping out of the BTS train at high noon I was reminded of that first trip I mentioned earlier, except it was hotter.  Much hotter. The temperature in the shade of the station, even up on the open train platform, (some three stories up) was a good 103F/104F (39-40C), and there was no breeze whatsoever.

Cutting down through the Asia Hotel that's connected to that station (always a fair was to cheat the heat for a few minutes) I headed off toward Pantip Plaza, making a detour into the first 7-Eleven I came to. My shirt was already clinging to me when I got inside, so I went for a sports drink instead of water - just to keep some electrolytes in the system.

If you're paying attention while out behaving like a mad dog in the mid-day sun you'll notice many Thai without a hat shielding themselves from the direct sun with whatever they happen to be carrying, be that a newspaper, a flyer or whatever. Part of that is to avoid sunburn or tanning, but part of it is surely just to deflect the heat. If they have nothing to use, they'll vary their course as they walk along to edge along the sidewalk in whatever shade's available. Along the way I joined just such a line of folks in what probably looked like a pick-up game of Follow the Leader, with one farang in the middle.

This man didn't seem upset that nobody was buying heavy slippers in the heat

Arriving at Pantip I quickly found my cable, but I wasn't looking forward to the walk back to the hotel. I'm not a cheapskate by any means, but I felt a little foolish spending the money for a taxi back to the cool of my room when I could walk it, so I just stood around in front of Pantip and gathered my energy for a while while watching - with an odd pleasure, I admit - the locals also wilting slightly in the heat. Misery loving company, and all that, you see.

Two brothers played quietly in the shade while their parents sold cold drinks

The snack vendors weren't doing all that bad - it was, after all, lunchtime - but the drink vendors were doing a brisk and lively land office business, as my late grandfather would have said. Busy enough that I had to wait for nearly 10 minutes for enough of a break in sales to get the picture below without a half-dozen people in it. I bought a coconut, myself, and considered a second but opted for a bottle of water instead.

Thankfully, the first hint of a breeze came up that wasn't caused by the traffic on the street. It grew to a steady pace, giving everyone a bit of a break from the stagnant, dead noontime air. Figuring I still had time to read a chapter or two and snooze some before my "guest" was to arrive from Suvarnabhumi I began my walk back to the BTS station and home.

Slowly, of course... and weaving along the way to stay in the shade wherever possible.

Accommodation, Pt. 22: The Rose Hotel, Bangkok

From the Rose Hotel, looking down the sub-soi (and Le Meridian's side driveway) to Suriwong Road

Down a narrow sub-soi off of Suriwong Road, past a line of food carts, storage bins (and the occasional worker napping on top of them) lies the entrance to the Rose Hotel, tucked quietly in behind the Northeast corner of the enormous Le Meridian Hotel that faces Suriwong itself.

Although nearby areas are bustling until the wee small hours of the morning, being where it is the hotel is a blissfully quiet spot.

Google street map view - The Rose beneath the green arrow

It's what I'd call a medium-sized hotel: 72 rooms and suites, in a variety of sizes and within a reasonable range of prices - from $50USD for a corner room double to $53-58USD for a standard (with breakast) up to $90USD for a junior suite during the current low season (prices from Agoda, which don't include taxes).

Standard room bed, double occupancy

The rooms may seem small to those who are used to enough room to swing one of the area's feral cats, but I don't spend a hell of a lot of time in my room on vacation, anyway, so I've been fine with them. Some rooms - such as some of the corner rooms - don't allow much more space than the bed itself takes up, but their standard rooms are more than adequate. I've never stayed in a suite there, but you can see the hotel's photos for them here.

Standard room desk, TV, refrigerator and mini-bar

I've stayed there a few times and, other than once when the aircon unit drain stopped working and made a small puddle on the floor beneath it I can't think of anything I've ever been unhappy with, save one thing: the wi-fi isn't free. I hope they remedy that soon, as it seems a needless charge for a place that size and at those rates.

The Rose Hip restaurant is a very pleasant place for breakfast or lunch, and there's always the lovely teakwood Ruen Urai restaurant with its formal (but not stuffy) atmosphere for dinner. The restaurant is just to the side of the front of the restaurant, next to the pool area. While they don't require reservations I'd suggest making one to avoid being told "sorry, all full for tonight" at the reception desk - something four of us had happen once at 19:00 on a weeknight. You can reach them for a reservation via the link above, and look at or download the PDF of their menu here.

I've always had good water pressure and plenty of hot water in the bathrooms

For those who thrive on - or at least dive into the deep end of - the  colorful night life in the Big Mango the central tourist hub is within an easy walk, for breeders and non-breeders alike. I've added some numbers to this satellite shot, and there's an explanation just below the image. You may find it helpful to open the image in a new window.

Another Rose hong nam view

1 is the Rose Hotel - as a point of reference. 2 is the Sala Daeng BTS station on Silom Road, 3 is the main street of the Patpong Night Market (stories about the daily afternoon setting up are here and here - with a video clip here). 4 is Soi 4, home to several nice places to eat and some gay clubs.

5 is Soi Thaniva, known to myself and a few friends as Soi Yipun - yipun being Thai for Japanese - because it's lined with a wide variety of restaurants and clubs (think "ping pong show") aimed more at the Japanese tourist than the farang, but still an interesting walk, even during the daytime. I ran into a tout there who wanted me to have a beer with him once, and had a somewhat testy exchange with a man offering children another time.

6 is Soi Pratuchai, aka Soi Twilight, where the highest concentration of gay clubs are. There are also several comfortable places to sit, have a drink and watch the parade of tourists and club people; especially delightful if there's any sort of breeze and you're not in a hurry to do anything but relax.

Finally, 7 is the general area below and near the Sala Daeng BTS station. In that single block you'll find the Bug and Bee, Coffee Society (a great spot for coffee and free wifi), two worthwhile massage shops  (Thai Thai [formerly Siam Sawasdee] and Green Tea to the left of it - both nice for foot massages, manicures and pedicures), a Burger King for those who need a little reminder of Western junk food and a few other places.

The unusual "inner core" of The Rose is above the lobby and cafe

There's hotel parking if you or a guest have an auto, and for those who find a good swimming pool an added bonus there's one of those, too; yet another good place to relax after a day of running around or just to rest before going out for dinner, drinks, clubbing or some combination thereof... whatever floats your boat.

Some interesting angles to one of the hotel's stairways

Although standard check in is 14:00 and check out is 12:00 noon they've (so far) always been as flexible as possible with those times. I don't recall specifics on the laundry fees, but I felt they were reasonable.  There's 24-hour room service available, and no - for those who are wondering - there is no additional fee for guests you might invite back to your room. It's not a "short time" hotel by any means, but other than asking for (and holding) your guest's identification they didn't bat an eye at anyone I saw coming through with a "rented admirer" while sitting and writing in the lobby late one evening, just to see.

The Rose plays with several of the booking services, and different sites get different blocks of rooms at different rates, sometimes, so check a few in addition to the hotel's site - which is The Rose Hotel. I'd suggest looking a ways in advance for high season bookings, as it's a popular place.

We're closing in on a couple of dozen hotel reviews so far, and there are still a lot of them to come. I hope at least a couple of them are a help to you while planning your stay. Drop me a line or leave a comment, if you would - whichever you're most comfortable with.

IKEA In Thailand: 1st Store Lands In Mega Mall Bangna

Most of the front of the Bangna Mall location on the outskirts of Bangkok

IKEA began as the brainchild of Ingvar Kamprad (a Swedish man) back in 1943, but has grown into a huge corporation now operating over 340 stores in at least 39 countries. They specialize in furniture and other housewares, the furniture often sold as "assemble yourself" kits. In years past they were known to be challenging to assemble, even if all of the parts were in the box when you got it home. Thankfully they've made great improvements over the years and their products are far more dependably manufactured and packaged.

When I read they were to open their first store in Thailand I was intrigued: how would their style and selection be received? It turns out they were both accepted and very popular. Part of that popularity most likely came from their TV ads, which have always been entertaining...



Quick and to the point, often clever and, some might say, borderline suggestive ads - one featured a child giggling over a personal vibrator - have been rolled out to regional audiences, such as this one of a Thai husband and wife who find some new spark for their relationship in this one:



One of their more recent ads (below) showed a man with his ladyboy partner and drew some criticism from the transgendered community, but still... it's clever:

The first Thailand location is in the Bangna district, just to the East of Samut Prakan. I was staying within a few kilometers from the Bangna Mega Mall IKEA anchors and, having some free time during the day while the friend I was visiting was off at work I decided to take a run out to see this blue and yellow giant.

If you're taking highway 3 to Chonburi you're likely to see the Mega Mall on your right as you're approaching highway 9... that distinctive IKEA sign sticking up into the sky is hard to miss, haze permitting.

There are precious few examples of differences between the Thai store and the ones I've visited here in the U.S., other than the English/Thai signage for items, but there are of course items in stock that might be more popular to a regional clientele.

Past the check-out area at IKEA Bangna

We'll see the new-ish, and quite modern Bangna Mega Mall in another post, but here's an image of one of the interior display islands that line the main aisles, featuring IKEA items:

There had recently been a recall of the Swedish meatballs that are somewhat of a staple of the store's cafeterias most places - something to do with bacteria in the beef they used - so I couldn't sit and have my usual "comfort food" there, but they did have a black pepper pork steak plate that was spicy enough for most locals, I'd guess.

Oddly enough (or not) the longer lines were at the snack bar outside the check-out area on the main floor, which featured a Thai version of hot dogs, fries and soft-serve ice cream cones.

One evening after my friend returned from work we took a run out to the Mega Mall to have dinner and catch a movie and since he'd never heard of IKEA I walked him through it. He saw several things he said he'd come back to pick up for his new room. I'm waiting to see how well his patience holds out while assembling them!

Map of the area of the Bangna IKEA, from their web site

The Thai DO Love Their Plastic Bags...

Bags from a single, short trip out one afternoon

If you've spent a morning in Thailand at the JJ (Jatujak/Chatuchak) Weekend Market and done any kind of shopping whatsoever you arrive back at your room with enough plastic bags to stop a train - elevated or otherwise - and probably of a surprising variety, to boot. From the feather light bags we're used to seeing in the produce departments of U.S. grocery stores to heavy-duty grade thick ones like the solid green one in the top of the photo above that you could carry ten pounds of nails in without a single one tearing through.

This isn't to pick on JJ Market; it's safe to say almost any time you buy any item over there - regardless of how small and insignificant - it's likely to be handed to you in a sturdy plastic bag, as if your pack of chewing gum needed special treatment. It's simply how it's done there, and most of the time it's not worth mentioning.

Occasionally I'll just take the item out, put it in my pocket and hand the bag back to them (which saves them the cost, anyway) but if it's something I'm taking back home as a souvenir I take it home in the bag and let the recipient recycle it. The bags are different enough that they're a novelty of a minor sort, so I figure it's just part of the gift.

But Mommm... it's Tommy's turn to take out the trash!

When you stop to think of the sheer volume of them used over time in Thailand, though, the numbers must add up. Wondering about that as I was gathering up what seemed like a small arm load of them to take out to the recycle bin this morning I did a quick check... and they do.  Add up, I mean.

Bangkok leases nearly three quarters of the 2,000 trash trucks on the streets daily - like this on stuck in traffic on the Saphan Taksin bridge one morning

The people of Bangkok alone generate about 9,370 tons of garbage per day (that's 8,500 metric tonnes), and of that total almost 2,000 tons (1,800 mT) are plastic bags.

I read an estimate from their Ministry of Natural Resources and environment that if they'd quit with just the bags the country could save $21 million a year, or 650 million baht.

Yes, this is the same picture from a "Safety On The Job...Or Not..." post from two years ago

Most of the time the streets of Bangkok are cleaner than a huge metropolis in the U.S., but people are people all over, and when you have visitors adding to the trash both there and in slightly less obvious areas you do see trashy spots. If you don't buy that, take a look down between buildings or behind fences in an unused spot and you'll see it - just like at home. It happens.

San Francisco and a couple of other nearby cities have outlawed the plastic bag, forcing people to either buy/re-use paper bags or buy and re-use other plastic shopping bags, as may happen at some point in Thailand, as well.  The Thai already use fiber re-enforced, re-usable bags for many things, especially larger quantities, things moved on a regular basis and for some storage. I can't use the larger versions for groceries here, but I've brought back the smaller bags from there for groceries here. Not that I'm waste-free, but at least I'm doing part of my part.

It's a pie-in-the-sky hope Bangkok will eliminate the bags you see flying along in the exhaust of a bus or carried skyward by the wind, but they could cut their carbon dioxide production by an estimated 11 million tons per year if they did. Worth at least taking a stab at, I suppose.

While they think about it, how about if I put that pie in a styrofoam box and bag it up for you, hmm? I'll be right back with that.